I try not to pick on other people but Bro Moloch’s post was recently a serious kind of misguided. The long and short of it is, I suspect the man has or had some innate magical ability and he’s formed his own system. OK I get that. The trap is he’s decided that his system is the only system and he somehow believes his system exists in isolation. Ironically that idea might have actually worked in Dee’s time, it might have even been correct before the invention of the cheaply bound book. However, it’s sort of silly to say “I’m an island!” on the internet. This is a nice place to compare and contrast how people do magic.
Moloch’s writing starts out well-intentioned enough:
Yet another email from a poor kid who thought he was doing the right thing and hired some ‘vampire sorcerer’ (whatever the hell THAT is) to give him a pact with a Spirit. Now the Spirit is causing all sorts of shit with this kid.
Seriously, please do not think you can simply read enough about Spirits from some forum or group and then go out & summon Spirits and provide familiars to people via pacts. You don’t know what you’re doing and just trying to make money off the ignorance of others and playing a dangerous game.
OK we’re operating off the assumption that amateurs can summon spirits (correct), and make pacts (also correct). For most of us, probably not. I know it took me probably a year of messing with Enochian to finally get the system hacked together enough to produce any effects and frankly I’m still not sure that first evocation was who I called on. However I also realize there are people far more psychic than me or people who grew up in stronger religious contexts and they probably could summon a spirit on their first crack at it. I also object to doing magic for money, although I do think people should cover expenses, and I’m OK if they want to tip.
I spent years working with Spirits, interrogating some, conversing with others, learning, learning and learning some more before I got the wherewithal on how to deal with Them let alone give Their children away (with Their permission). Some of you are trying to do what I do and seriously you’re in way over your head. Sorcerer may sound like a simple title but it is not. If you want to play at practitioner, then go be a Hoodoo or Wiccan but leave Sorcery alone.
The same goes for your wannabe Ceremonial Flunkies. Just because you think you can summon up some Spirit out of a grimoire and threaten it with names of Yahweh, does not give you permission to give Familiar Spirits. Hell, you have NO Spiritual Authority to begin with so who the hell do you think you are to order a Spirit around in the first place? Fuck Konstantinos, Lon DuQuette & Joe Lisiewski because those asshats don’t know half as much as they think they do.
All I have to say is “That’s nice”. While I tend to agree with him that Wicca and Hoodoo are for people more interested in “the combination of the virtues of things”, I disagree that it’s not magic, and I strongly disagree with him that they are somehow ineffective. I think they are less effective when done without working with spirits but it’s not like the plants are somehow not magical because they are collected outside of religious context. I’m not going to throw down a circle and candles and robes just to pick some rosemary for an elixir. That being said, just as plants have virtues by themselves, the Divine Names (or Names of Power) also have power by themselves because they too are well worshipped and regarded. Not believing rosemary has any power doesn’t decrease its lunar influence, it just means they miss out. More importantly this is a protocol question – if the spirits have been used to being addressed in a particular way, I would venture it’s more dangerous to get rid of protocol than to make up an entirely new plan. To that end, I would be more worried about advice from Moloch than I would be worried about advice from grimoires. More importantly, the grimoires knew the power of the Catholic Church, and so when we see something like the Lesser Key with prayers and such, the grimoires themselves are piggy backing on the coattails of the Catholic ritual. I’m not even Catholic, but I recognize the power of literally hundreds of years of ritual.
DuQuette doesn’t practice anymore (his focus is on his music) and Lisiewski has been dead for years.
You people are playing a very dangerous game when you don’t know anything other than what some Medieval practitioner scribbled into a journal. There is far more info you need to learn and know before you have that ability. But, fuck it. I don’t know anything because I don’t hold some university degree or I’m not some Hippie turned Crowleyite or some Goth wannabe.
Another swipe at Lon. But I would venture that the “journal” of Dee is paramount to working it, along with the “journal” which brought us most of what he deems as sorcery. No-one ever gets their “journal” completely correct because a technical manual of evocation would probably just include the seals. Actually Stenwick’s Enochian books come to mind as a technical manual to evocation and he’s careful to separate out different flavors of rituals and stick to the “bare bones”.
I would venture there’s a serious problem in his thinking, however – If people don’t have the spiritual authority to evoke and work with spirits by dabbling, then it’s not a “dangerous game” simply because they don’t have the authority to compel spirits to actually show up. On the other hand, if they do have the authority, than it can’t be a “dangerous game” unless that person doing the evocation doesn’t have a strong religious or moral compass. Really this has to be on one side of the issue or another.
What really ginds my gears, however, is that instead of saying “Maybe you ought to be careful about what you do and how you do it”, this is crouched in, “I know my shit and these guys don’t”. I suspect he’s never actually read anything Lon penned or any of Hyatt/Lisiewski’s notes. Lon falls pretty far from the Dee purists, and doesn’t share much space with Crowley except for using Golden Dawn attributions, and Hyatt/Lisiewski is open about the fact that people actually are playing with fire and outlines the precautions for them because he has an interest in actually being helpful.
That being said, most of the Goetia manuscripts and a True And Faithful Relation both begin by cautioning the reader that they “are works of darkness”. If that doesn’t spur someone into considering the moral, spiritual, and ethical implications, I don’t know what will.
It’s one thing to think you know what you’re doing when you believe Spirits are simply aspects of your own mind and in that context you can’t really hurt anyone because your’e not doing any real Sorcery nor interacting with real Spirits. However for those of you who think you have what it takes to summon the likes of Belial and order Him around and then demand a Familiar Spirit from Him, you’ve got another thing coming!
Yahweh doesn’t mean shit to Belial or any of the 72. Nor are they threatened by some brass box held over hot coals. That’s an absolute bunch of horse shit anyway and it amazes me that otherwise rational thinking CM’s buy into that Medieval hogwash. Just because something is old does not mean it is ‘accurate’. Remember it used to be taught in universities by learned scholars that the earth was FLAT. Think on that, O wise one.
In case you haven’t noticed, I’ve left the spelling and grammar errors in place. This is confusing the model with the mode. LMD actually outlines how the “aspects of ourselves” works in Low Magick and Chicken Qabalah. I’m being polite here but I start to wonder how people work something like the Lesser Key without having the Hebrew background the work is crouched upon. The Goetia of Dr Rudd spells it out – the divine names don’t work because they threaten, they work because they are the aspects the universe is made from, whatever someone might call them.
Also the Greeks knew the Earth was round, and they knew how big, and the knew the distance to the moon. The Arabs knew it too, which means the Chaldees knew it, which means that Belial (Ba’al) knew it too. I guess he doesn’t hang out with Belial much. This is where this crosses into absurd. Lets say with a straight face that everything in 777, everything in The Magicians Tables, everything in Agrippa is wrong. To actually perform sorcery, you need associations between things, and Agrippa, etc all wrote those down. I’m not sure I can find an older version of plant/mineral/stone associations except in the Bible where the Tribes of Judea were given some of those associations. The Golden Dawn took it and ran with it and produced the Tablet of Shewbread (pp 21) and most people take that as cannon. However, the first people to do it were the Greeks. If we don’t want to use Greek associations, at least credit them with the idea. This is really where rubber meets road. I don’t think that religious beliefs are static, but I also have a hard time taking someone seriously who derides history while claiming to be in contact with ancient Gods.